Archive Channels for Art and Creative Writing

It would really be the optimal way to support a our diverse art community.
Any other way would just drive them away and demotivate them.

I still donā€™t see why this is a good idea we are as space station 13 game and discord we are not inherently an art community having someone as a curator would just make more pseudo staff which means new guide lines and rules plus weā€™d all have to agree on someone to be in charge of art we said weā€™d be willing to peruse this on the forums and have people link their forum post with there art in the art channel but we arenā€™t a social media platform like reddit deviant art twitter instagram if you want your art to truly not be lost look to using another site plus if im being honest as both an artist and an admin the traffic on our discord is poodoo its always the same people and you wont be hitting any good target audiences with the same less then 100 people

because 2003 spess game needs a good community to back it up. The reason why I stayed in fulpstation was because I looked on the discord and saw it was velaā€™s birthday, and then all these people came to draw and help celebrate it.
Seeing amazing art of a 2d pixel game is pretty good.

yep i was there i added to it which is great and a fun community thing to do but ultimately if you plan to use discord as your only way to show off your art and get a community you will go literally no where i encourage you all to just link your art from your twitters in the art channel or forum

or, since it looks like the fulp forums updated, perhaps we could get that art section up so people can link their threads in the discord. I am legitimately all for this idea, but on the forums rather than the discord. like legitimately all these ideas would work infinitely better on the forums, and the only reason people are arguing against is is because they donā€™t use the forums. maybe this is the reason to start?

Its not necessarily about promoting peoples platforms, its literally just a thing for the community to have an easy to view area for fulp specific art.
Would we not want to support having that content on the server, seeing the influence it has already had on the server with safety moth and the group projects?
Its not more roles, not more moderation, just 1 extra channel, only image perms for anyone to post, and a cooldown to prevent spam.

And the argument against the forums remains that, like with every other ss13 server, the forum is just for game business like patrols and bans, etc. Its never been a place for people to view art, nor where people would look for it. This can all be seen on other forums easily.

this is why the forum is easier you upload your picture to the forum you link the post when people click on your profile you can see every peice of art youā€™ve made since they can see all your past posts then you can also make comments on the art instead of having a page where you will 100% be steam rolled we can take away talking on the art channel and have it be links to your art on the forums only

thats why you post your art on the forums and put the link in the art channel nothing is lost and no ones steam rolled

weā€™re willing to change the art channel and how fulp takes care of artist but if youre not willing to meet us half way this will go no where

Soā€¦okay. Letā€™s play this out: All art is posted on the forum. The #Art- Channel on the discord gets links, but no talking of any kind.

Question 1: Would all artist be willing to add some select keywords to their links? Donā€™t have to be many, just something like species, colored, (maybe comissioned/free/copyrighted for the sake of legal safety). ALternatively a short descriptor: Safety Moth, Commissioned for.
I just think that would be a big QoL-Improvement.
Question 2: What about a place for artists and wannabe artist to talk about their craft? Not necessarily with the art. But perhaps similar to the coder cafe? After all, we do seem to encourage a lot of artists in our community.

Do I understand that right? Because if it is so, Iā€™d see my vision represented there.

we arnt going to add more channels so what we can do is

Keep art channel how it is now very casual
Make art channel only able to have links in it to post forums
Make art channel images only

  1. Personally i feel like having a curator who posts people art is a bad idea since it makes people who are more causal about there art arenā€™t going to message a curator to post their art theyā€™re more likely to use images

  2. Posting on forums is a bad idea because you need a forums account set up which also makes it less casual

  3. If we have images only then there will be more steam rolling but we would have the art gallery it seems everyone wants

Okay, I would like to craft something proper. I would ask everyone to please wait for my next post.

I donā€™t understand why this is an issue. Just search on the art channel for anything with a file. Start posting creative writing in links and it can be searched for in the same way. Seems like a non-issue that is blowing up into something big for no reason. Theyā€™re just channels to share some stuff with the community casually.

First, a quick rundown of my proposal:

Add one Discord-Channel to preserve and exhibit art that has already been posted. Features no comments, can only be posted in by one person, who I dubbed the Curator. His responsibility is to actively search for art to be preserved, asking permission by the artists of course, and adding keywords for an easier search.

Add also one Discord-Channel to preserve and exhibit creative writing that has already been posted. Features no comments, can only be posted in by one person, who I dubbed the Curator. His responsibility is to actively search for art to be preserved, asking permission by the writers of course, and adding keywords for an easier search.

A quick rundown of the arguments for this. Arranged by P for pro and a number, for ease of reference.

P1.Traffic is far greater on the discord compared to the forums, allowing for greater exposure.
P2.Tidier and easily navigable, due to no comments and keywords.
P3.No favoritism, as the channel is not limited, like the pins are.
P4.Interconnectivity across Discord, as it stays on one platform.
P5.The current art/creativewriting channels lose non of their casual atmosphere. Discussing P6.related topics, giving hints and helping other artists grow can continue as normal.

Now a quick rundown of the arguments against the proposal. Arranged by C for con and a number, for ease of reference.

C1.The Forums provide more specificty, allowing for everyone to have their own art gallery. (Argued by Horatio22/Joyce)
C2.There already are too many Channels on the Discord (Argued by Horatio22/Joyce)
C3.Links to the forum keep the art from being replaced with other art, leaving some ignored. (Argued by Slig)
C4.This is just more work with no gain (Argued by Mokoshotar)
C5.Less popular users would still be buried by more popular ones (Argued by Mokoshotar)
C6.Non-Mods cannot be trusted with additional Discord Permissions (Argued by Mokoshotar)
C7.We are not an art community (Argued by Slig)
C8.A Curator would create more pseudo-staff, that needs to be reflected in the guidelines. (Argued by Slig)
C9.A curator would have to be appointed by administrative agreement (Argued by Slig)
C10.Traffic on discord isnā€™t as good as one might think. (Argued by Slig)
C11.All these ideas would work better on the forums (Argued by Mokoshotar)
C12.People argue against the forums because they donā€™t use the forums.(Argued by Mokoshotar)
C13.Author-based searches possible through Forum Profile. (Argued by Slig)
C14.Comments are artwork-specific, because they are within the artists own gallery. (Argued by Slig)

I believe those are all the primary arguments for and against. Certainly there was some repetition here and there.

Now, allow me to comment on some of the arguments against:

C1: This is correct, one channel per artist is however not, what we are looking for. We are asking for an archive, based on P3. A place where all art may be appreciated, not just certain art.
C2: I cannot argue against that.
C3: This is exactly one of the reasons why we have proposed this. P2 and P3 adress this and are more than equally suited to preventing art from being replaced by other art.
C4: It is more work for one person, to be sure. What may be gained remains to be seen, however, zero is not what I expect. At the very least, you will gain a tidy art gallery.
C5: As argued in P2 and P3, while there would still be a quantitative difference, the quality of viewing the art, through keywords and tidyness, would increase.
C6: While I cannot speak to the general trustworthiness of non-mods, I believe there must be some who can be trusted enough with one additional permission.
C7: We arenā€™t. But @FXMaster put it quite well: because 2003 spess game needs a good community to back it up. Art is something unique and wonderful that brings people together. It is quite literally community forming.
C8: I cannot argue against that.
C9: I cannot argue against that.
C10: This can easily be verified by numbers. I would really like to see them. Additionally, P1 compares the traffic between Discord and the Forums. Whether or not Discord is the greatest in general is not the scope of this proposal.
C11:I donā€™t think so, as the main advantage of the forum is itā€™s specificty, which we have adressed in P3 and is not what we wish for with this proposal. Whereas the Forum does not feature what we have adressed in P1, P2 and P4
C12:This may be correct. Although, I believe P1 is a good reason for this.
C13:This is true, although not unique to the forum. Even now I can search for all of one artists posts in the art channel. P2 would make it even easier, possibly rivaling the forums.
C14:This is true as well and actually something that my proposal does not adress. Under my proposal, once an artwork has had itā€™s time in the limelight, comments on it will be almost nil. However, we feel like this is a fair price for the proposal itself.

Now some more general statements:

As you can see, I am rather passionate about this. I have sunk hours into drafting these texts and I have enjoyed the exercise itself. I thank you, honestly, for allowing me this.
But I also feel, like I have adressed all your concerns besides three:

One person being in charge of art
That person having to be chosen by the administration.
The amount of Channels on the Discord

I want to adress them! I really do! I want you all to feel, like me, that this is a good thing for us as a community! Something that strengthens us, makes us grow a little closer, because of our shared sense of beauty.

Thus:
One person being in charge of art and that person having to be chosen by you:
I can feel, how this would look like yet more work for you. Iā€™ve been a moderator, years ago, in a forum, I know what underappreciated work it is. But please, consider: The added permissions are minor. The guidelines need only be given one additional line: The Curator archives Art, The Librarian archives Writing. They have no additional permissions.

As to having one person, I admit, it seems a lot of power to give to one person. Maybe, down the line, this will turn out bad. But a committee would invite yet more arguments (and additional roles) and leaving it to the artists themselves is no different than our current state. Chaotic. I see the curator not as a short term making someone happy role, but as a longterm, slow contribution to the community. Organizing is rarely fun.

Ultimately, though, maybe the curator is too much to ask. Andā€¦maybe a slowmode on my proposed archive is enough?

As to the last argument, the amount of channels on discordā€¦I am unable to come up with something. You are right, that there are many channels. I find them quite well organized. But you must see many more. From my point of view, it seems a minor thing. And yet, if this is what concerns you enough to deny my proposal, I have no choice but to accept. This last thing, I cannot argue against.

2 Likes

We arenā€™t an art Discord, frankly 98% of the discord donā€™t care about art. This requires us to make rules and guidelines for something that has been fine for over a year.

1 Like

my problems with the curator idea specifically

what stops a curator from showing favoritism to their own/their friends art? after all, most of the people that will comment on your art are your friends.
how do we deal with curators that donā€™t do the job they signed up for well?
can we trust a curator to stay consistently active?
how do we go about picking new curators?
how active does a curator have to stay? do they post weekly, daily?
how would a curator benefit me over a forum thread I can deal with myself, posting my own works free from possible third party meddling?
what if Iā€™m an artist that has a lot of social anxiety, posting my art work in a thread people can comment on is one thing, but what if Iā€™m too nervous to send my artwork directly to someone so they can judge if my work is good enough to be seen publicly?

and personally i donā€™t trust someone else to post my music over myself.

honestly thinking more about it, this curator idea would be way too restrictive imo, and i know this isnā€™t saying a lot since iā€™m not artistically popular like someone like paporo, but if these ideas were implemented I would honestly be turned away from posting anything in the art threads.

I think we should give up on the whole curator idea really.
As much as i like archā€™s idea in theory, the practice will be too much for fulp since the focus of the server isnt on the art.
What iā€™d suggest at this point would be the following:

1: we keep the art channel, but for more of a place to discuss art and show progress like sketches or asking for tips, and we add a channel where people can only post their own artworks themselves with the chat permission disabled to only allow those images. No curator. Which would allow anyone to post their art without going through some curator or ā€œadmin approvalā€.
This would mean that people can post their own art in the channel without being drowned out by the comments, and theres no more favouritism with ā€œwho gets to have their art pinnedā€, because again, thats mostly me and aspev, which isnt fair.

2: We keep the art channel as is and live with the fact that pins will be removed, people will be favourited, art will be drowned out, but we can close the whole discussion and go back to normal, however good that really is.
Posting all the art on the forums is still an option that i dont favour, but if thats the only thing youā€™re going to allow then so be it.

Personally i feel like this conversation has gone on for long enough, and that people have been missing some of the points here, but i hope that with these options we can actually have a consensus and a middleground.

You are probably right, though it pains me a bit. I liked that idea. But Mokoshotar brings up some valid points, that I can only argue ā€œsomeone generally trustworthy needs to be pickedā€ againstā€¦and the third-party-argument is valid as well.

[quote=ā€œPapaporoPaprito, post:36, topic:1663ā€]
1: we keep the art channel, but for more of a place to discuss art and show progress like sketches or asking for tips, and we add a channel where people can only post their own artworks themselves with the chat permission disabled to only allow those images. No curator. Which would allow anyone to post their art without going through some curator or ā€œadmin approvalā€.[/quote]

This is a fair middle ground, I think, creating a nice archive, whilst keeping the comments in the regular #art and #creativewriting channels, without having a third party interfere and without creating more pseudo-staff.

If we did it this way, Iā€™d be very happy!

1 Like

holy fuckin christ, im not gonna read all this shit

the forum can work with webhooks so i can feasibly setup some automation for this.
i want this automated because we dont need more random stuff to moderate

1 Like

OK! See Now a bot will post these in the discord and Discord (this is just a link to #fan-art-and-stories)
I got the webhooks integration up and running. it has limitations but hey itā€™s like 90% of what you were asking for so fuck off

1 Like