Ban Appeal: Aestel Wellick

Byond Account: aestell
Character Name(s): Aestel Wellick
Discord Name (ie: Name#1234): N/A, been harassed on ss13 discs before, I’d rather not repeat.
Round ID of Ban: 16670
Ban Message (Gyazo/imgur or copy and paste): Banned from Roles: Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Heretic, Hivemind Host, Internal Affairs Agent, Malf AI, Monkey, Space Ninja, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Sentient Disease, Spider, Swarmer, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard, Bloodsucker, Monster Hunter for 3 days - Core Rule 2, Antag 1.1,1.2: As a traitor, you worked with sec to validhunt 2 non-violent bloodsuckers. While you did have one of them as a contract objective, you attempted to stake them(after they escaped from you), which would round remove them.
State your appeal:

This is less about the appeal and more of a way to get an actual ruling from someone up the chain as the rules are in direct conflict and contribute to the lessening of interesting options and RP from antags.

Basically I was a traitor with two kill targets+contractor. I had myself switched into sec, got the loyalty implant etc. My logic was to use sec to detain both of my targets and have them disappear from the cells, and assist in my contracting as well.

So the meat of this starts when one of my contractor targets was a bloodsucker, I stunned him, and started to cart him off to the dropoff - he proceeds to break out of the cuffs, hits me twice with brujah strength, I manage to stun him again, and he jaunts back to his coffin. I had already stated in radio that he was a vamp (in case I died before I went in for the stun). Rides-the-Lightning then asks me to accompany her to hunt the vampire down (I am in sec disguise so I do). She tracks it to its lair, and we wait. It comes back eventually and a fight breaks out, then I am immediately teleported to the centcomm holding cells by ShadowAKT (in the middle of the fight, so RIP rides, probably killed her round too).

Following that is a long conversation about how my cover as sec doesn’t apply even though I was following spacelaw even though it apparently does if you get a regular job change??? I was not acting outside of what Spacelaw would have me do. I had already stated over the radio that he assaulted me (an officer, which he did), which automatically makes it a hostile bloodsucker in the eyes of security. He/she cited the following rules:

1.1. Do not needlessly kill those you do not need to outside of your objectives and greeting message simply because you can. This includes destroying silicons. Things like covering up evidence, dealing with pursuing security officers, ‘Good Samaritans’ on your tail, and removing a witness, are always acceptable examples. Ahelping ideas for gimmicks may grant an exception to this.

1.2. Killing players outside of rule 1.1 must directly further your goal, and you cannot permanently remove these players from the round. For example, killing an engineer to gain departmental access with the objective to steal the CE’s blueprints is acceptable. Killing an engineer for her insulated gloves or access to the prolathe without an objective in that department is not.

For 1.2 I would argue that these not only do not apply in this instance as failure to assist a sec officer making a lawful arrest(in this case, stake) would place my original objectives in jeopardy. It also directly furthers my goal as the next thing I can say is “(Target 1 and 2) are bloodsuckers as well!” and have multiple sec assist me with dealing with it.

For 1.1: The vampire knew I was a contractor, there is no way to non-permanently kill a vampire witness. Furthermore: The bloodsuckers thrall screamed over chat that I was a traitor multiple times, and yet I was accused of outting him. The mods rulings also directly conflict with each-other, as they are clearly not intended for someone infiltrating security. I followed my roles rulings on spacelaw, which was needed to maintain my cover to accomplish my objectives. There isn’t anything wrong with that, and I will not apologize for thinking that.

TLDR: as a longtime player with relatively few incidents, I think it is a very bad idea to make this ruling as not only does it make it so you really can’t have a security officer cover, it gives actual valid-hunters(not naming names) a foolproof way to check if someone is an antag using the mods as a baton.

1 Like

This is a very complicated situation in which our normal policy doesn’t really apply. I can see why the mod decided to ban for this, but I think it is valid to do what you did. I don’t like the idea of people using their antag disguise as security just so they can execute (which is round removal) anyone that they wouldn’t normally be able to round remove, but since it was a bloodsucker and couldn’t be killed in a way that wasn’t round-removal, it is fine in this situation.

I’ll unban you from antag now and remove your note/ban from the system.