Lawyer Gets lethals, Shoots me. Captain Enables him

Grief Patrol Resolved Grief Patrols
1

Byond Account:Kitsunemitsu

Character Name(s):Jill Ness

Discord Name:Soulmate Valkyrie Type Z#2401

Round ID:11467/11468

Griefer Byond account:

Griefer Byond name:Adoring Fan Of Adam McChicken, Ian Gibson

I arrest Adoring Fan for lighting a bartender on fire.
Then when Xenos show up, I let him go because we have Xenos and are heavily understaffed.

He then Spends the next 30 MINUTES getting the captain on his side. The captain then FORCES me to do trial by combat.

There are Xenos. I was watching cams I watched the fucking HOP get lit on fire, and reported it to the crew.
I watched the CE die in departures, I reported It.
I was busy working and the captain and this lawyer were bitching at me. I did get angry and I did start yelling them on comms

So I arrive at the court, Baton and beat the lawyer into crit in a trial by combat. I suture him up afterwards, and the captain then deems it unfair, sets me to arrest.
Then the captain gives the lawyer LETHALS. The lawyer then lethals me to crit, takes me to dorms and kills me.
No admins online.

Then DMs me on Byond harassing me.

Round after he starts metagrudging me in sec comms again.

2

Right so after failing to conduct a proper investigation, you tried perma-ing me despite having no authority or right to do so as a detective. I then convince the other detective to parole me, and the captain calls for a trial by combat.

the captain was supposed to say start. i was waiting for boxing gloves and you came in with a baton. and pepper spray, and then beat me into crit.

that isn’t how trial by combat works. For one you didn’t say start, and two you used outside weapons and gave yourself an unfair advantage. And sinc e you didnt wait until captain said start, what you did was actually attempted murder/assault.

I used lethals on you because you had openly said you would kill and shoot me if i came to arrest you. you were holed up in the detectives office and i knew if i stunned you too many times with it you would start running back to your office and regain stamina. by lasering you (again, after you repeatedly used lethal force on me earlier without warrant and after you violently challenged the captains authority) i ensured you wouldnt be able to just hit and run until my egun was out of charge.

And yeah… that’s why you got arrested. You challenged the captain to a fight and threatened to murder an officer of the court and the captain himself. Don’t act like a baby when you get arrested for that. And like I said you tried killing me multiple times, fair’s fair.

Here’s the thing with the round after where I suppoesdly “metagrudge” him. I say i’m going SSD and he says “Good.” That was hte first and only thing he said to me. I knew exactly where that was coming from so I gave it right back to him and taunted him. Maybe I Shouldn’t have done that, but he instigated it.

3

“Right so after failing to conduct a proper investigation”

I had 3 witnesses saying that you lit that bartender on fire as a non-antag.
I asked around the bar when you ran off, all 3 of them said it was you. I saw you running away from the scene with a bartender lit on fire. You admitted to doing it too.
You were not an antag.

“you tried perma-ing me despite having no authority or right to do so as a detective.”
There was no warden, no HOS. Captain was busy denying xenos to answer comms.

“I then convince the other detective to parole me,”
I paroled you. I paroled you because of Xenomorph.

“and the captain calls for a trial by combat.”
I never agreed to this, I was forced into this.

“the captain was supposed to say start.”
This info was never relayed to me

“i was waiting for boxing gloves and you came in with a baton. and pepper spray, and then beat me into crit.”

you spent 10 minutes being a shitter on comms in a crisis and I was responding to a trial by combat.

“That isn’t how trial by combat works. For one you didn’t say start, and two you used outside weapons and gave yourself an unfair advantage.”
Trial by combat isn’t even really a thing on our station, never mind something you can force someone into.

" And sinc e you didnt wait until captain said start, what you did was actually attempted murder/assault."

It was a code red situation. I beat you into crit to make you shut up.

“I used lethals on you because you had openly said you would kill and shoot me if i came to arrest you. you were holed up in the detectives office”
you Shouldn’t HAVE Lethals as a lawyer

"i knew if i stunned you too many times with it you would start running back to your office and regain stamina. "
I would, have, again, LAWYERS. SHOULD NOT. HAVE. WEAPONS.

“by lasering you (again, after you repeatedly used lethal force on me earlier without warrant and after you violently challenged the captains authority)”
You were asking the captain for lethals. By giving you lethals, the captain is violating station rules and code.
I had reasonable suspicion that you HAD lethals because you just asked the captain for them. This is allowed by server rules

“i ensured you wouldnt be able to just hit and run until my egun was out of charge.”
Again. Should NOT have a weapon as a lawyer AT ALL
I didn’t have lethals the whole round, until I got an egun, that another det gave me, because he SAW you get lethals

“And yeah… that’s why you got arrested.”
I did NOT get arrested. You lethalled me, Cuffed me, then you took me somewhere else, and killed me.
fights end when one person is unable to fight. you MURDERED me.

“Don’t act like a baby when you get arrested for that. And like I said you tried killing me multiple times, fair’s fair.”
I didn’t kill you ONCE.
I batonned you the first time to get you arrested for lighting a fucking bartender on fire, with 3 witnesses, then I beat you into crit during a “Trial by combat”, something that’s not even a fucking thing. I HEALED YOU AFTERWARDS TOO.

“Here’s the thing with the round after where I suppoesdly “metagrudge” him. I say i’m going SSD and he says “Good.””

You messaged me on Byond making false accusations about a moderator.
Only after this did I make one message stating simply “good”
I have a screenshot of the convo below.

4

This situation is honestly really stressing me out. I’m involved and should probably leave this to someone else, but I must weigh in. Jimmy, I said nothing to you in discord so far. The only thing we have spoken about off of the game logs so far is in byond, because I wanted to clear things up between all 3 of us and you were disconnected ingame. I won’t post your side of it unless you want me to, but in light of the above screenshot I feel I need to post everything I have said outside of game logs.

byond_stressed_about_thiss

5

Sorry for the double post but in light of everything I feel it’s safer for me to not edit. I just want to add that no I never laughed at anyone, said nothing about anyone’s reputation, said nothing even close to “nobody takes you seriously” about anyone. There’s rules about posting game logs so I’m not gonna even think about that at the moment, it’s up to whoever handles this.

6

And lastly whoever reviews the game logs if you can confirm here that I didn’t laugh at anyone, that I didn’t say anything about reputation, and that I said nothing even remotely close to “nobody takes you seriously” that would also help. Thanks.

7

Alright let’s get something settled that it’s incredibly easy to doctor BYOND photos. All he has to do is make a BYOND account like Jimmyhandrix1. Then he can just PM himself shit-talking messages over BYOND while blacking out the one to make it seem like it’s legit.

@Mike, I know I said nothing to you in the discord. I never told you otherwise. Feel free to post my side of the story if you want.

Now, let’s address Kits’s main post.

“I had 3 witnesses saying that you lit that bartender on fire as a non-antag.
I asked around the bar when you ran off, all 3 of them said it was you. I saw you running away from the scene with a bartender lit on fire. You admitted to doing it too.
You were not an antag.”

If you had done a proper investigation like the other detective, you would’ve realized my intent was not malicious and that it was an accident. I certainly didnt intend for him to die.

" There was no warden, no HOS. Captain was busy denying xenos to answer comms."

None of this matters, you had no authority as a detective to perma.

“I paroled you. I paroled you because of Xenomorph.”

No, I literally escaped from you and managed to uncuff myself whiel talking to a sec guard. Then the other detective interrogated me. Other people were turning against you and seeing how shitty and abusive you were being so that’s why you yielded.

“I never agreed to this, I was forced into this.”

Doesn’t matter. He’s the captain, you’re sec. Follow chain of command. It doesn’t matter that you “didn’t agree” to this.

“This info was never relayed to me”

Maybe you missed it in between your violent threats against the captain but he did say not to start the fight until he got there.

“you spent 10 minutes being a shitter on comms in a crisis and I was responding to a trial by combat.”

You broke the rules and attacked me before the trial officially began. Attempted murder, assault at the very least.

" Trial by combat isn’t even really a thing on our station, never mind something you can force someone into."

It was for that round.

“It was a code red situation. I beat you into crit to make you shut up.”

So you admit to using lethal, violent force against me just to be quiet? Talk about over-escalation. You aren’t helping your case here.

“you Shouldn’t HAVE Lethals as a lawyer”
“I would, have, again, LAWYERS. SHOULD NOT. HAVE. WEAPONS.”

Uh… What? The captain is free to distribute weapons as he pleases. You have to understand that this isn’t about /you/ and what /you/ want and how /you/ think security should be played. The captain is well within his right to distribute an egun. Have you ever played on a round where theres war ops? Cargo literally gives people guns.

“You were asking the captain for lethals. By giving you lethals, the captain is violating station rules and code.”

Which station rule and code is that?

"I didn’t have lethals the whole round, until I got an egun, that another det gave me, because he SAW you get lethals

And i didn’t get lethals until after you used violent force against me

“I did NOT get arrested. You lethalled me, Cuffed me, then you took me somewhere else, and killed me.
fights end when one person is unable to fight. you MURDERED me.”

I was going to arrest you but your friend in security kept trying to free you so I had to run out of brig. The nature of your death is another matter entirely.

“I didn’t kill you ONCE.
I batonned you the first time to get you arrested for lighting a fucking bartender on fire, with 3 witnesses, then I beat you into crit during a “Trial by combat”, something that’s not even a fucking thing. I HEALED YOU AFTERWARDS TOO.”

You also made violent threats against me and the captain both before and after the trial. That isn’t acceptable. Never is, never was. Learn that to avoid situations in the future.

QED.

8

Thanks for your permission, Jimmy. Here’s the unedited screenshot just for further clarity.byond_stressed_about_this
It sounds like we’re all in agreement that I am not saying mean things about people. So thank you both for that anyways.

9

i want to correct myself and clarify that I did arrest you. I fired lethals first but then when you were coming towards me i switched to disabler when iknew you wouldnt be able to make it back to your door in time to hide. Then I cuffed you and was going to use your ID to brig you but your friend interfered and made me run out of sec

10

Looks like we got a rules lawyer who hasn’t read the rules

“If you had done a proper investigation like the other detective, you would’ve realized my intent was not malicious and that it was an accident. I certainly didnt intend for him to die.”

How is tossing a beaker on someone an accident? Yeah you could have been stupid but considering that you knew how to fight I do NOT think that you are new. especially considering that you must have played sec before and knew how to swap from disable to kill on the gun

Escalation clause 2:If you act like an antagonist expect to be treated like one and be held liable for your actions both IC and by admins.

“None of this matters, you had no authority as a detective to perma.”
EXACTLY Why I just let you go instead of batonning you and chasing you some more. I realized that we COULDN’T. There was no Warden, no HOS, and unresponsive captain.
If I REALLY wanted to perma you I would have completely stripped you down instead of stripping and searching.
I even took you off arrest PERSONALLY.

“Doesn’t matter. He’s the captain, you’re sec. Follow chain of command. It doesn’t matter that you “didn’t agree” to this.”
Shut the fuck up. This is not how a Role play game works. I’m not going to get forced into some kangaroo court during a crisis.

Non Antag Command Roleplay Standard 3
Command staff should respect the chain of command unless there is sufficient reason to not do so. A CE ignoring a captain’s meeting request when the supermatter is delaminating is acceptable. The HoS ignoring a captain’s meeting request during non-emergencies is not.

I’m not a Command staff but this is in a similar vein with “Respect chain of command”. I was watching cams to make sure that the CE and the HOP were both either recovered or confirmed dead and who did it. This is reasonable.

“Maybe you missed it in between your violent threats against the captain but he did say not to start the fight until he got there.”
I was busy working the Cams, I did not hear this.
I made threats AFTER I put you into crit, AFTER the kangaroo court.

“You broke the rules and attacked me before the trial officially began. Attempted murder, assault at the very least.”
“It was for that round.”
It doesn’t, Check both rules and spacelaw.
Security Policies and Practicies, Legal Representation and Trials.

“So you admit to using lethal, violent force against me just to be quiet? Talk about over-escalation. You aren’t helping your case here.”
You Demanded a trial by combat, I shut up and gave you your trial by combat, I won.

“Uh… What? The captain is free to distribute weapons as he pleases. You have to understand that this isn’t about /you/ and what /you/ want and how /you/ think security should be played. The captain is well within his right to distribute an egun. Have you ever played on a round where theres war ops? Cargo literally gives people guns.”

War ops is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION Than the captain giving lawyer lethals to shoot a det who wronged the Lawyer and was screaming on comms…

“Which station rule and code is that?”
Core Roleplay Standard 9.2 “Possession of weapons without sufficient IC reason is not allowed.”

Some Det screaming over comms after you harass her for 20 minutes is not sufficient IC Reasoning.

Escalation Clause 3:
Over-escalation of fights is also unacceptable. Over-escalation is, in short, doing more damage to someone than is required to resolve an issue or using violence instead of words to solve an issue.
You could have not said anything, not hunted me down in brig.

Core Roleplay Standard 10 Griefing or targeting security because your character believes all cops are bastards is not acceptable as a non-antag.

“And i didn’t get lethals until after you used violent force against me”

You wanted a Trial by combat so badly, I beat you to crit and sutured you.
I could have left you to rot on the floor.
I WAS SAYING, I WAS BUSY.
It was a gesture of kindness I will not do again
I used the right amount of force to end the conflict and I even healed you afterwards, as per the rules.
I was not trying to kill you, Obviously. I put you into crit. I had you on the ground harmbatonning you. I could have killed you immediately but instead I stopped the fight. I was not trying to kill you I was trying to end the fight so I could get back to work

You shot me with lethals first. I had my gun set to disable and then you shot me with lethals so I shot back.

Command/Security/Silicon Responsibilities 4: Security must use nonlethal force unless there is reasonable suspicion that the other party is armed

Read: Use of deadly force under Fulp spacelaw.
Except you’re not an officer. You should not have lethals.

“I was going to arrest you but your friend in security kept trying to free you so I had to run out of brig. The nature of your death is another matter entirely.”

Escalation Clause 1: If your life is in danger, you can always fight back lethally, or if a conflict with the other player has lasted throughout the round with multiple fights. In most cases, fights end when one party enters critical condition or is otherwise incapacitated.

Escalation Clause 3: Killing someone during a dangerous fight when they could be placed into crit and healed or ignoring the opportunity to use non-lethal force when available.

You then murdered me in the dorms. I was incapacitated and in cuffs, and you killed me.
This alone gets people noted.

11

“How is tossing a beaker on someone an accident? Yeah you could have been stupid but considering that you knew how to fight I do NOT think that you are new. especially considering that you must have played sec before and knew how to swap from disable to kill on the gun”

I didn’t toss a beaker on anyone? What are you talking about. Didn’t touch a beaker that round.

"

“None of this matters, you had no authority as a detective to perma.”
EXACTLY Why I just let you go instead of batonning you and chasing you some more. I realized that we COULDN’T. There was no Warden, no HOS, and unresponsive captain.
If I REALLY wanted to perma you I would have completely stripped you down instead of stripping and searching.
I even took you off arrest PERSONALLY."

I mean, this is just a lie. When you realized there was no warden and hos and captain wasn’t interfering, you took that as your personal liberty to decide my fate. You tried to get the sec borg to open perma. You literally asked him to open it. You “took me off arrest” because people were starting to notice your bad behavior and you got pressured otherwise. Multiple people called you out and said how you were treating me was wrong.

“Shut the fuck up. This is not how a Role play game works. I’m not going to get forced into some kangaroo court during a crisis.”

That is very much how it works. I want to be clear that, OOC wise, you had every right to not go to court. You not showing up to court isn’t against server rules. However, it is a blatant disregard of the chain of comand. Couple with the fact that you were literally threatening to murder the captain over comms and… yeah. you were a threat that needed to be neutralized.

“Non Antag Command Roleplay Standard 3
Command staff should respect the chain of command unless there is sufficient reason to not do so. A CE ignoring a captain’s meeting request when the supermatter is delaminating is acceptable. The HoS ignoring a captain’s meeting request during non-emergencies is not.”

“I’m not a Command staff but this is in a similar vein with “Respect chain of command”. I was watching cams to make sure that the CE and the HOP were both either recovered or confirmed dead and who did it. This is reasonable.”

I mean, OOC wise it is reasonable. IC wise, no, Captain had a right to call for your arrest ESPECIALLY since you were making VIOLENT THREATS against him

“I was busy working the Cams, I did not hear this.
I made threats AFTER I put you into crit, AFTER the kangaroo court.”

That doesn’t matter. You had multiple opportunity to hear this and you didn’t notice. As a result, I ended up getting unfairly critted by you.

“It doesn’t, Check both rules and spacelaw.
Security Policies and Practicies, Legal Representation and Trials.”

Captain is run trial as he sees fit.

" You Demanded a trial by combat, I shut up and gave you your trial by combat, I won."

You didn’t give it to me. You attacked before the trial started, making what you did assault. I actually convinced the captain of this and thats why he gave me the egun. That is what led to your arrest.

“War ops is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION Than the captain giving lawyer lethals to shoot a det who wronged the Lawyer and was screaming on comms…”

So do heads have the right to give guns as they see fit or not? What is your brightline.

" Core Roleplay Standard 9.2 “Possession of weapons without sufficient IC reason is not allowed.”"

I had sufficient IC reason. The captain gave it to me and you were threatening to kill me. You had also just brutally attacked me.

"
Over-escalation of fights is also unacceptable. Over-escalation is, in short, doing more damage to someone than is required to resolve an issue or using violence instead of words to solve an issue.
You could have not said anything, not hunted me down in brig.

Core Roleplay Standard 10 Griefing or targeting security because your character believes all cops are bastards is not acceptable as a non-antag."

I mean, this is really you here, isn’t it? You over-escalated. Trying to perma me for a minor crime. Assaulting me and then evading arrest.

“You wanted a Trial by combat so badly, I beat you to crit and sutured you.
I could have left you to rot on the floor.”

Bro you didnt leave me to rot ont he floor because the captain was calling for your head. You definitely wouldve killed me if I got the chance.

“You shot me with lethals first. I had my gun set to disable and then you shot me with lethals so I shot back.”

No dude, you came out of the door with lethals. I saw the red on your gun. Thats when I open fired. check the logs on this. Even if you werent, you were literally threatening to kill me a few seconds ago so I had every reason to believe youd use lethal force when youve used it before.

“Except you’re not an officer. You should not have lethals.”

Captain is free to distribute weapons as he sees fits provided the situation is appropiate. You had just brutally beaten me and he tasked me with arresting you, so me getting an egun was appropiate.

“You then murdered me in the dorms. I was incapacitated and in cuffs, and you killed me.
This alone gets people noted.”

Again, you tried murdering me multiple times and were yelling that you were going to kill me right before I arrested you. I’m not sure you want to hold that against me because your multiple attempted murders on me kind of negates any moral high ground you have. Maybe I shouldn’t have done it, but you also took things way too far.

12

In the end though.
You were just lying.
You were lying on the forums.

“Alright let’s get something settled that it’s incredibly easy to doctor BYOND photos. All he has to do is make a BYOND account like Jimmyhandrix1. Then he can just PM himself shit-talking messages over BYOND while blacking out the one to make it seem like it’s legit.”

Ok, I got a video of me doing it. do you need specific mouse movements?
Hiding shit on grief patrol.

14

Closing the topic since we are reaching drama levels, will be looked into.

15

I’ve looked into this, thank you for the report.