What is valid hunting and what is preparing for possibly needed self defense?

I usually ignore or run away when I realize someone is an antag, so I never worried about valid hunting. However I’ve been looking through ban appeals for fun and got confused as it seemed that having a weapon which you usually don’t have access to (gun as non sec as an obvious example) could be seen as valid hunting.

Before writing this I looked up “valid” on both the TG and Fulp wikis and didn’t get any results, that’s why I’m writing this. If this is explained somewhere and I missed it, sorry.

In the Non antagonist Crew Roleplay Standards it states:
9). Antagonists deserve a fair chance at winning, and security officers need to be able to do their job. While helping a player who is being attacked is allowed, intentionally seeking out antags as a non-sec role is not. Generally speaking, you shouldn’t leave your department to help as a non-sec role.

This says nothing about having weapons prepared, and it seems unfair as you have no way to prove they had that weapon for the idea of hunting/generally killing any antags they come across. And is it specifically contraband weapons that you shouldn’t have, or could having a crowbar or circular saw prepared also count as preparing for valid hunting? If you were to attack an antag who was not directly harming you, but was instead tampering with something using an EMAG which could make it dangerous, is that valid hunting?

I’m just trying to understand where the line of defending yourself/your crew/your department and valid hunting is crossed.

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Power Gaming: Obtaining items/power or doing things outside of the scope of your department or skill range to have a greater advantage. More often than not this is playing to ‘win’, whether it be at a certain mechanic, game mode or anything else. This includes giving others no room or ability to act or ‘win’ themselves. These rules are relaxed for players with antag status.

so building defenses or obtaining weapons threat when there’s no big threat is powergaming. for example building walls or building a combat mech. rules dont say anything about this being allowed during nuke ops/cult i assume it is allowed but you never know with fulp admins.

Valid Hunting: Searching for / preparing for / dealing with antagonists and criminals without a need or duty to do so. This includes having the intention of eliminating them as a threat to the station. Note that this refers specifically to the illegitimate targeting of antags and does not include scenarios listed as acceptable in the Guide of Acceptable Antag Killing (e.g. you can’t validhunt a nukie because they are always an acceptable target for all crewmembers).

people often use weapons they gained (which is powergaming) to hunt antags which is validhunting. only security is allowed to validhunt. so validhunting and powergaming often go together but they can be seperate.

So to answer your question some antags are “valid” to kill. This generally includes big and open threats like traitors hijacking the shuttle, cultists who have halo, these can be hunted and killed by anyone without being validhunting. You can see the full list at the bottom of this page: Server Rules | Fulpstation Wiki
There also is another case where you can use self-defense to kill antags even if they arent valid. However this literally isn’t defined in the rules so yeah the best case would just to be run away so you don’t get banned by a fulp admin.

Yeah I already knew how valid traitors worked, I just didn’t understand the line between someone being valid and breaking the rules. Didn’t know that self defense just wasn’t really described in the rules, seems like it could cause some issues. Thanks for the help! I’ll make sure NOT to mass produce chloral hydrate + smoke bombs as CMO for department safety, mhm definitely.

It is heavily implied

No it’s not only contraband. For an example, you can antag prep/validhunt by grabbing the syringe gun as MD and filling it with toxins “just in case”.

Depends. You are allowed to defend your department from tiders and antagonists as long as you follow the Escalation Policy and Guide to Acceptable Killing. You are, however, NOT allowed to run around the station or maintenance hunting down antagonists.

It’s really a case by case basis. We will usually ask people why they have things (like a non-medical person holding a circular saw) and ask them to get rid of them instead of noting them/banning unless they have a history of doing so. It really depends on the situation and the context. Take a look at Core 0, the very first rule.
core 0

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It’s explained in the Escalation Clause section

Powergaming, but yes, this is against the rules without an IC reason for random crew members to have guns (e.g., nukies, blob, halo cultists)

You are allowed to run around the station or maintenance hunting down antagonists if they’re a nuke op or cultist with halo.

In the situations listed, all of the crew’s lives are in imminent danger. As well as with other similar delta-level threats. For example Blob.

I am inclined to ask, If you’ve got a tator out to do ye ol’ “keel you” but they fail in the first shot, and you have proof of it, are you then within reason to ask SEC to issue a means of self defence and permit for such if they remain at large?

If you’re being shot at, you have an IC reason to get a weapon for self-defense with authorization from command/warden.

So stuff like unpowered batons* flashes and disablers would fall under that kind of issue in most personal defence cases?

(*The unpowered batons that are LIKE the command staff telescoping batons, but don’t telescope and need a conversion from the stun batons)