MadKunt as Captain griefing

Byond Account: Ekaterina von Russland

Griefer Character Name(s): Larry Lord

Discord Name: none

Round ID: same as Ekaterina von Russland Head of security griefing

Griefer Byond account: Mad kunt

Griefer Byond name: Mad kunt

What happened: TL;DR: self-antagging captain, possible metagrudging.

Long version, also available in the topic above (excluding the defence, which is present there and not here due to being relevant there and irrelevant here):

The user known as “MadKunt”, at the time playing as “Larry Lord”, is a self-antagger and attempted griefer, though he is not entirely at fault, only partially, as he believed, at the time, that a changeling could not disguise himself as the captain (this will become relevant later), and as such my reasoning did not seem, to him, to make sense. He may also be metagrudging.
This user spent a significant part of the round trying to smear the HoS, myself, saying such things as that I was mistreating prisoners, a blatantly false statement as two of the prisoners can attest to - they were, in fact, not mistreated, and they were paroled for good behaviour. I cannot determine why he did this, and suspect metagrudging.
At one point, this user walked into the brig and tried to sneakily drag me off, possibly thinking I wasn’t paying attention. I was, and I spoke, at which point he told me to go with him, alone, into a private room (the last time this happened to me, it was a traitor trying to assassinate me (as I found out in the end round pop-up)). This naturally seemed suspicious to me, especially in combination with the fact that I had been advised earlier (which at the end round I discovered was false) that there were changelings. This seemed to be true, as there was a suspicious amount of monkeys. Unbeknownst to this user, changelings can disguise themselves as the captain and use mindshields, as I found out the hard way in the past. Due to this suspicious behaviour, I said that I suspect the “captain” of being a changeling in disguise. He then proceeded to further these suspicions by trying (and failing) to assault me and/or to get others to assault me, and then smearing me further in common communications.
I discovered only after the end of the round that the captain was not a changeling, which makes it all the more strange how he acted so suspiciously and in such a hostile manner towards me, which leads me to suspect that he is metagrudging.

I honestly saw you more of an issue since you decided to pursue all the heads (not only the captain) for being lings. In several occasions, I (Noah Jones, detective) called out the whole sec department around 8 times for two reasons: first one because I saw either a changeling or a morph (which I ended up confirming) in science that resembled the RD. No one came. No one replied. Not even the HoS, you, who should be alert of this stuff. Next moment, I caught a traitor in maints. Since I am a detective, I shouldn’t even be detaining nor pursuing traitors, but I actually did. I don’t have handcuffs, so I call you again, pretty angry because you all (but especially the boss of security) ignore every single word I spit out of my mouth. So I decide to process them personally. No one attending, I finally released a traitor infront of your eyes without you even realising I did such thing. You were blindly cursing and blaming the captain for being a ling (while I confirmed there were traitors without trace of lings), you even forgot to do your job as representative of security by targeting, pursuing and even killing every head, principally the captain.

I would fall with the captain in this case since we were discussing this in dead chat.

What you just said is blatantly false. I have not killed a single head. I suspected the HoP of being a ling, but took no action against him. My only other security interaction with a head was arresting the CMO for what we thought was an attempt to flood the station, or at least the security part of the station, with toxic gases - we released him shortly after, after he explained that it was a misunderstanding.

As to the rest of what you said: there was indeed a morph. I asked mentors if morphs are antags and the mentor said that they are not necessarily antags, and that I should not attack unless they’re doing something worth attacking over (i.e. not attacking a morph ipso facto). I was aware of the morph.

Regarding this supposed traitor, I saw nothing of the sort. I do not deny that you pursued and caught a traitor, nor that you released him, but I do deny that you released him in front of me. I witnessed no such thing. Regardless, a ling posing as the captain (AA, AI access and authority) is a much greater risk to the station than one single traitor and so it was right to prioritise that issue.

So what you say is that you suddenly suspected that all heads were lings, a few minutes after the round, with no kind of evidence, witness or action that proves it right? What the hell did that captain do to be considered a ling? Abuse of power? Abuse of access? That can’t mean a ling ate the cap and became them; in fact there’s a long story of shit captains that have ruled this station, and for their actions, they got killed by the own crew. But never expected a HoS to do that.

I can’t honestly believe that you think the captain, a role who cannot be an antagonist and should be (but not often is) robust enough to defend himself, a few minutes after the round, has already been absorbed and mimicked by a ling. Also because if that would have happened, I’m VERY sure he would have called for help. Also, as I’m aware of, you didn’t comfirm at all that the captain was a ling. There are some ways to inhibit or confirm a ling, some of them shouldn’t be used (such as the MMI test), but yet you just acted without justification.

Speaking about the traitor, you should also note some traitors are capable of ending the whole security team by themselves, so don’t even think of saying “one single traitor is not important”. Our job as security is to deal with ALL and EVERY threat, not only the big ones.

So far, all you’ve done is distort what I say, state half-truths and spew blatant lies.

You, a detective without access to the command channel, state that I was ignoring the other heads. How does this make any sense? You’re clearly making things up.

I never said all heads were lings. The HoP and captain aren’t the only heads - either you’re implying they are, and lying, or saying I said things I didn’t say, and lying.

Asking questions I answered in the original text wall doesn’t get you anywhere either.

It was nowhere near “a few minutes after the round [start]”, it was well into the mid-game.

You think that guy was robust? Laughable. It would’ve been the easiest thing for a ling to overpower him and assume his identity. Again, this was nowhere near the start of the round and you’re making up this lie to lend your lies credibility, but there is such a thing as “logs”. I had plenty of justification given that, from the information I had at the time, he was trying to create the conditions in which he could assassinate me.

I did not state that a traitor is not important and you can stop trying to put words in my mouth - you keep trying and failing with your dishonesty. I stated he is LESS important, which does NOT mean he ISN’T IMPORTANT. 11 is less than 19 but still greater than 9.

P.S. I replied to your other lies via edit, it wouldn’t let me post a new reply. If you’re going to reply to that, it would be best to do it here.

Alright. Seems this won’t lead to anything at all. It is like we moved this from the actual captain to my point of view. Not like I heard you constantly shouting out that “oh cap is ling”, “hop is ling arest both” (after all, you involved most heads, not saying all). RD wasn’t involved but he was stared by a morph (which I repeat, it’s already threat enough to be worried). I still insist in this: you didn’t either have enough proof, nor publish it over sec comms. You only gave suspicions and convinced sec to arrest him. Now I’m asking you, why was he dead? Did you kill him? If not, why didn’t you revive him? Why accusing a captain because he’s either new and confused/just an absolute nerd, that he is a ling? Maybe because he doesn’t act as he usually acts? Often happens.

Also regarding robustness, don’t even dare to underestimate what people can or can’t do. I’ve often been robusted by people WAY more new than me, only because of slips. I’ve seen known HoS/Captain mains die to people that aren’t that known. Not only because his name is unknown means his robustness is bad.

Note: Any security officer/person with the security stationed radio can access any channel (except syndicate/centcom ones), and therefore can hear/speak over such channels. I’ve done it many times, not going to say that it works very well as a spy tool. Adding aswell, what I saw and heard in dead chat is enough for me to know approximately what happened.

At this point you’re being childish and desperate you clearly are in wrong since you come onto these posts so aggressively. as Time_URSS mentioined before “innocent until proven quilty” applies, and you’re justifying your accusations on the point that I wasn’t “robust” and that “I could easily been turned” is insane. Multiple people in deadchat were angry and confused on how you screwed up the round and accused everyone of being a traitor or a ling on account of them saying you’re in the wrong. I hope admins look into this so we wont have to argue.

Here you are again, mixing truth with lie to try to further your agenda. I did say that the captain is a ling, because that is what was evident at the time. I said that the HoP is a ling, but I did not order him to be arrested, that is a lie that you created.

I didn’t have enough proof. That’s why I didn’t order security to join me in a hunt to have the captain arrested. Are you high? I only stated that he is a ling so that people would be aware of this suspicion and take it into account. Only when I was satisfied that there was enough evidence, and taking note that there was no centcomm and the other heads refused to respond to me, did I order the captain to be arrested.

You’re asking me why he is dead when I clearly said I have no idea who killed him. If it weren’t for the rules of this forum, you can’t imagine what I’d be saying about your lack of intelligence right now. I didn’t revive him because I was investigating to confirm if he was or not a ling, and I was waiting to see if he would revive himself via ling stasis. We didn’t have time to conclude this investigation and then revive him because the shuttle had arrived by now, otherwise he’d have been revived if we were satisfied that he wasn’t a ling, or gibbed if it turned out he was a ling.

Every sentence that comes out of your keyboard is dumber than the last, especially when you ask questions that were already answered in the original wall of text. Go read it.
Exactly because of what you say, not new underestimating people, I say that he could be robusted. You’re the one underestimating the supposed changelings.

No, it isn’t. That’s the point. You saw part, you assumed it was enough to draw conclusions, and you drew wrong conclusions. Own up to it. Either you’re woefully misinformed or you’re knowingly lying.

Addressing MadKunt’s reply:
I’M BEING CHILDISH? You spent the entire round smearing me in comms due to your metagrudge! That is not the justification for my accusations, you absolute HONK, it is only one of many contributing factors. You’re doing the same thing he is: mixing in a bit of truth with a major lie to try to see if it passes.
Go read the wall of text. Either you didn’t read it or you are maliciously lying.

I did not screw up the round, you did by turning on your HoS and self-antagging.

I honestly don’t understand how the two of you can expect to get away with such BLATANT lies.

Yeah with all I’ve heard now, it’s both our words against yours. Both my point of view coincides with the captain’s (we were even discussing this before in dead chat), while you kinda also claim false stuff aswell.

First of all, you state heads they are lings with no proof at all. Accusing without proof is something really dumb, and assumissions aren’t proof at all. I could assume you were a ling aswell for accusing a head with that lack of proof aswell. Satisfying there’s enough proof? What proof you had to consider the captain a ling? Did he show up as a ling? Did he pull out an arm blade and stabbed it in your neck? Did he suddenly came out of the dead and fully healed himself? NO. Therefore, no proof.

Alright, you don’t know who killed the captain. You didn’t care either. You don’t matter if the captain of the station, a very important role, dies. Not even examining completely if he was a ling or not, you don’t care. Also another question: If he was a ling and he died, why didn’t you do your best to incinerate/gib him? Is that an actual excuse with this issue?

Now, your rudeness really increased during the discussion. First of all, we started peacefully, then this went to few puns. Insults are really a bad habit of people in grief patrols.

Changelings are definitely not that powerful, unless you’re dealing with someone that knows what he’s doing. Usually a ling gets caught real easy, cuffs often stop them unless they have certain ability. I would rather let the captain go and confirm he’s a ling by killing someone than rather take action with suspicions when he could be innocent (which is the case).

So you’re still pulling this discussion over and over, while we (both) know you dragged this issue (have to say, not only me and the captain were complaining, but other people around). You shouldn’t even had to accuse the captain for such stuff. I know lings can mindshield themselves, but from where could a ling get mindshields if the main ones are in security (one box is even in your office at the locker), and cargo hasn’t ordered mindshields during the whole round?

I didn’t have proof, but I had grounds for suspicion. These are very different things. If you find someone with a knife with human blood, you don’t have proof that they assaulted someone, but you’ll have a very strong suspicion. I already detailed why I had that suspicion, go read the original text.

Who says I didn’t care? I clearly said I was investigating. You have no grounds to state that our investigation of the captain’s body, which was interrupted by the shuttle’s arrival and departure, wouldn’t include an assessment of who killed it. I believe that I asked on comms who killed the captain, to see if someone was already aware and could tell me.

Yes, of course my rudeness increased during the discussion, you’re fabricating lies with the admitted goal of trying to get me falsely job banned. Would you not be equally angry?!

You would rather let a suspected ling go. That is your opinion. This could be the case, if not for the fact that the person he was trying to kill was ME. Do you actually expect anyone of sane mind to wait to die to assert that they have a suspicion?
I disagree with your statement that lings aren’t powerful, but that’s a matter of opinion.

How the hell would I know if cargo has ordered mindshields? The lings could have been among them! And importantly, how do YOU know cargo hasn’t ordered mindshields? The HoP was a suspected ling and could have very easily ordered mindshields if he actually were one.

I like how you’ve openly admitted to powergaming (using the station shield to spy on command frequencies)

I think I’m done arguing with you. You’ve done nothing but produce attempts at defamation. Half of what you two say are pure lies, the other half are lies with truth sprinkled in to make it at least look true, and you’ve admitted that your goal is to try to get me job banned, out of nothing except your metagrudge.

You’ve played well trying to keep me on the defensive. Madkunt has yet to explain why he self-antagged, which is what led to this entire incident.
At the time, I saw a ling disguised as the captain trying to assassinate me.
With the power of hindsight, I see that this wasn’t the case, but rather there was a moron who self-antagged, arrogant in his belief that he was beyond suspicion, thinking that lings could not transform into the captain. A misunderstanding at best, a result of metagrudge at worst. Other than his metagrudge, seems like an IC issue.
What I still don’t understand is why, before all of that, he was smearing me and saying that I mistreated prisoners (which the prisoners themselves can disprove). Even after confronting me, and after me presenting the prisoners who testified that they weren’t mistreated, on the contrary even, he continued to spout these lies.
I can only conclude that this is the result of a metagrudge, which is against the rules and not an IC issue.

In either case, I don’t expect the admins to give the slightest of shits, as we both neglected to include the proper round number.

P.S. Apparently misconceptions about lings (such as the one that the captain had) are common here, such as here Grief Patrol: Deputy tries to attack heads for not giving her AA where a user states that “I could not possibly be a ling as I joined late” which is simply not true, as I’ve been a late join ling in the past.

Describe my self antagging all I did was try to drag to you to your office for a talk which you didnt comply I never shot a gun at you or assault you in anyway you’re again making shit up. You dont seem to know what metagrudge is and using it incorrectly if I would have been revived and then attacked you it would have been metagrudge but since I wasnt revived at your hands due to your incompetence its not.

You wont probably wont get job banned due to this but will later if you keep this shit up and are caught by the admins, not in a millio years I would let you be head of any department even less the security but thats not for me to decide keep spouting lies.

“2) If you act like an antagonist expect to be treated like one and be held liable for your actions both IC and by admins.” ( This is exactly what happened to you. You acted like an antagonist and were treated like one IC.
I know what metagrudge is, but you don’t seem to, since you seem to think the only way to metagrudge is by assault.
You’ve yet to explain your metagrudge and/or self-antag behaviour, and from round start slandering and defaming me, with such baseless accusations as that I was mistreating prisoners, which the prisoners themselves disproved!
Further, your claim at the start is a blatant lie: You never tried to take me to my office, at the Northeastern corner of security. If it was in my office, it wouldn’t have been a problem - it’s an area quite literally surrounded by security officers. You tried to take me AWAY from security, into a secluded spot, which is exactly what a ling trying to assassinate me would do, which is what I do as a ling, and which is what antags have tried to do to me in the past.

I already wrote one text wall and I’m not going to write a text wall again on the exact same thing. Your self-antagging is described in my reply to your false report.

“thats not for me to decide keep spouting lies”
Did I misunderstand your poor English or did you just admit that you are going to keep spouting lies, therein admitting that you have been spouting lies all this time?

I’ve said and I’ll say again:

I still think and will keep thinking that the ling issue is just another lie. I would have expected you to call for sec if the captain did such a thing, not take care of it yourself. Also why did you involve the other heads in this? Why was the HoP considered a ling aswell? And the CMO? Now everyone is a ling for you?

A long text of reply doesn’t mean anything at all.

My english isn’t that good but i’ll try to get my point across to your thick brain, I tried to drag you away to have a talk, that is true yes, but first off you werent cuffed, nor incapacitated so killing you near sec would have been insane, people get dragged all the time that is not “self antagging” as you call it. Most of the slandering was done by you, I asked you in person if you were mistreating prisoners and you answered arrogantly like “lmao no” I got that information from a psychiatrist that told me in pda I said fine, okay I did not keep accusing you of that. Then you started to get more insane by constantly accusing me of being an ling and pitting your security officers against me a captain of the ship that has power over you and them while I was trying to make things right by having the tests done by a neutral party you did not agree, the psychiatrist seemed to be right when he said you were megalomaniac and unfit for the role of the head of security I hope I dont meet you again when I play.

and even after the end of the round you went on and on how you were somehow right after all, me trying to captain the ship is more difficult when one of my right hands is trying to start a riot against me, I got killed in AI chamber in mysterious circumstances and your officers retrieved me took me to medical, doctor tried to revive me but you stopped him then you dragged me to brig and just watched while assaulting a mime and took no action on reviving me THE CAPTAIN OF THE SHIP

What you said is just so shockingly stupid and I don’t even know where to start…

I did call for security. I kept calling for security. I kept at least one security with me at all times because at this point I was convinced that there was a ling objective to assassinate me.

The HoP was considered a ling because he supported the “captain”, who was, at the time, supposedly a ling. Wouldn’t be the first time a ling covers for another ling. The CMO was never accused of being a ling and you claiming that he was is just another of your blatant lies.

Why can’t you stop lying?

Now replying to MadKunt:

You previously said I wouldn’t get job banned for this. Duh. Of course I wouldn’t get banned for this, I did nothing wrong. However, if things had actually happened the way your lies say they did, then there might be an actual case - which there isn’t, because they’re lies.

I didn’t say that trying to drag me ipso facto was self-antagging. I was addressing that point separately. I even rearranged the order of the paragraphs to not confuse your already very limited interpreting capacity.

Of course I answered arrogantly “lmao no”. It was dumb of you to believe some random psychiatrist instead of the Head of Security. Very dumb of you to actually make an issue of it, and EXTREMELY dumb of you to keep pressing the issue after two prisoners told you right then and there that they weren’t mistreated.

Of course I was right, you were a self-antagging asshole. As I’ve already stated in my reply here, rule 2 of the escalation clause clearly states that if you are going to self-antag you can expect to be treated like an antag, which you were. Regardless of that, it’s not a riot, it’s a mutiny if even that (at the time we believed that a ling had replaced the captain, and therefore it wouldn’t even be mutiny as it wouldn’t actually be the captain), and that’s an IC issue not an OOC issue.

Hahahahaha! A neutral party! You’re funny! The HoP wasn’t a neutral party, he was clearly on your side - you appointed him, he could’ve easily been a ling if you were one too.

You tell us that you got killed in “mysterious circumstances”? You were there! I was far away so I have no idea how you got killed, why are you refusing to tell us how you died? Did you commit suicide to try to blame us? Did the AI kill you?

I like how you try to sneak in lies, as usual. We didn’t “assault a mime”. We lawfully executed him for the murder of the Chief Engineer and attempted murder of the HoP and warden.

We took no action of reviving a changeling, nor did we have the time. Very different. It’s like you don’t understand the simple concept that we thought you were a changeling because of your idiotic self-antag behaviour. At that point, you can no longer be treated as the captain, but as someone pretending to be the captain. Besides, we would’ve revived you after the time at which we would have found out that you were not a ling (just a self-antagger) if we had had the time to complete our investigation and revive you before the shuttle arrived.

You were entirely unfit for the position that you had taken, which, by the way, is not that of captain of a ship, but of captain of a station, a fact which you don’t even seem to know!

Like I said, this was a misunderstanding between us at best, a metagrudge of yours at worst. I wouldn’t even have cared about this issue after the round if it weren’t for you slandering me with a false report on these here forums after you self-antagged and tried (but failed) to grief me.

I think the three of us are just wasting time here. We both neglected to include the proper, actual round number and so I don’t think the admins will give a shit. It says right there, in the template post, that they can’t do anything without a round number.

But I wasnt a self antagging asshole as you call it, you seem to get more and more upset each time facts are placed onto your face and I didnt keep pressuring you are you insane? it was a mutiny and because you were wrong about me being a ling it definently is a ooc issue. AI killed me for some reason I wouldnt know i’d call that mysterious and you keep saying shit like: " by the way, is not that of captain of a ship, but of captain of a station , a fact which you don’t even seem to know!" tells me that you’re a massive shitter case closed dont play hos ever again. I’m not gonna reply to your blatant lies and accusations anymore since nothing productive is gonna come out of that have fun getting banned because you can’t play by the rules.

You were a self-antagging asshole, intentionally or otherwise.
I get more and more upset each time your lies are thrown at my face, which are very different from facts.
You did keep bringing up this blatant falsehood on comms, you even called for me to be demoted for it, after you were already clearly lying, as the prisoners themselves had contradicted you.
I was wrong about you being a ling because you misled me into thinking you were a ling by self-antagging. This is on you.

The metagrudge self-antagger says I’m a shitter. The irony is palpable. Laughing at your lack of originality at calling what I say blatant lies when:
a) I’ve been calling you out on your blatant lies this whole time
b) You’ve been lying this whole time

Unless one of the admins is your cousin, I’m not the one getting banned here. You metagrudged and self-antagged, and were treated accordingly.